Pre purchase questions

[icareak]

Replacing a rented softener on a newly purchased home. Have it narrowed down between a Fleck 5600sxt or a 6700xtr. It seems the only difference is the brain box more options, as I believe the valve is the same. Any opinions between the two?

And...brine tank. Is the "grid" option worth the extra money? And why are there different sized tanks? What's the benefit?

Last...resin. Any opinions on the Dow made 8% resin? The unit is American made and if I buy the Dow upgrade, it'll be 100% American which is worth the $40 extra to me. Thanks.

[greg-cws]

The base valve bodies are identical on the Fleck 5600 and 6700 series softener control valves. Differences are in piston options, cam options and of course the power-head and computer. Both are excellent products; reliable, sturdy and easy to work on.

If you want to just get a basic downflow system, save your money and get the 56SXT. If you want to do more things like variable brining, upflow regeneration and connecting to other devices like an ultrafilter or ultraviolet sterilizer, then the 6700XTR will give you more flexibility and control. The XTR also keeps better statistics than the SXT.

Dow 8% is a good 'general' softening resin with acceptable chlorine resistance. If your chlorine level is above 1ppm, you might consider going with a higher cross-linkage resin for enhanced longevity.

Brine tanks come in different sizes for two reasons: Space constraints, and salt storage capacity. If you have no real space constraints, I suggest you go for the biggest one you can get so that you're not having to load salt very often.

The grid/deck in the bottom of the tank is a throwback to older times when all softeners were "float-fill" and did not have the ability to control the exact amount of brine-fill water allowed into the tank.

Float-fill systems were controlled by a float that shut the brine water level off at a particular height from the bottom of the tank, regardless of how much salt was in the tank already; so the deck was necessary to ensure a uniform amount of saturated brine was available to the system.

Since both control valves you are considering incorporate a "Time Brine Refill" function, a deck is really not necessary.

Make sure that the brine tank assembly that you buy has a SBV (Safety Brine Valve) with float on it for protection from inadvertent overfilling. Some dealers cut costs by not including the SBV unless you specifically ask for it.


Thank you for wanting to buy American. I wish more people would do that!

[ion_avenger]

Both valves are awesome! - Buy Purolite instead of Dow - You don't need a deck - Buy American!:D


Replacing a rented softener on a newly purchased home. Have it narrowed down between a Fleck 5600sxt or a 6700xtr. It seems the only difference is the brain box more options, as I believe the valve is the same. Any opinions between the two?

And...brine tank. Is the "grid" option worth the extra money? And why are there different sized tanks? What's the benefit?

Last...resin. Any opinions on the Dow made 8% resin? The unit is American made and if I buy the Dow upgrade, it'll be 100% American which is worth the $40 extra to me. Thanks.

[icareak]

I measure the system that's currently installed and it's 10"x48".....so it's a 48k grain. I got my water sample back and it's 19GPG and 3.7ppm iron. Some calculators show I need a 32k-40k grain resin tank, while others show 64k-80k..? I assume I need a 64k, and figured I go with a Fleck 7000sxt 64k grain unit, with double backwash do to iron content. Only getting a 7000 series since the other to can't run on a resin tank higher then 48k grain, or larger then a10" tank per the spec manuals. Also going to run a pre-softener filer (30micron). Does this sound about right? Thanks for the help/info guys, much appreciated.

[greg-cws]

The 7000 is a great valve, no negatives there.

With that much iron, I actually prefer pre filtering with MTM or greensand plus, but you can certainly make a softener handle it if you brine properly (at least 12lbs/ft3) and use a resin cleaner like hydroclear, pro res-care or even pur-gard.

I wouldn't bother with the 30 micron prefilter, unless you're noticing visible sediment in the water.

Make sure you have decent pressure and flow available to allow your system/s to clean properly.

How many people will be living in the home on a continual basis?

[icareak]

Three people all the time, four every other weekend. I assume I can program the brine specs? And the additives...just add a little here and there? How does that typically work? And it I have it double backwashing, is it necessary? Also, this is in the middle of nowhere well water, so from the sediment found pre softener...I believe a "whole house" filter isn't a bad idea.

[icareak]

Is the higher iron specific salt worth it, instead of the additives? And why are there a bunch of Fleck 5600 and 6700 units being sold with larger then specified resin tanks? When I search for 64000 grain units, 5600's keep coming up. But according to the spec booklet, a 10" tank (48000) is max..? Am I missing something?

[ion_avenger]

I don't use iron additive salt, rather liquid designed for the system. Us a drip feeder so that it is always in the brine tank. Lots of guys will put smaller heads on bigger tanks. It works most of the time. If you're seeing sediment, go with a bigger cartridge. Sediment is invisible at 30 micron.

[icareak]

Ok. I've decided to get a Fleck 6700xtr since it's basically the well designed and highly reviewed 5600sxt valve with a little better brain box. Going with the Dow resin since it's rated pretty much the same as the typically used resin...and mainly because it's American made. Going with a Res-up drip unit, probably the typical Morton System Saver salt since it's locally available. May get the 18x44 round tank instead of the 18x33, assuming it's worth the extra $12? And it does come with the safty brine valve. Only thing I'm not 100% sure of is the size. I keep coming up with around 48k grain, but think I may be better off with a 64k grain unit...any opinions. Once again, 4 people, 19gpg hardness, and 3.7ppm iron content. I'm ready to buy it!!!! Thanks again for the info and opinions, it's much appreciated!

[ion_avenger]

Good choice. Go with the 64,000 and 18x44 brine tank - you'll be happier over the long-run.
Post some pictures when you get it all installed!!

[icareak]

64k it is then. Will definitely post some pics, plus I'll be back to make sure all my settings seem proper and in order. Thanks!!!!!!!!!

[icareak]

Ok. Its installed and working kinda. First issue is that its a 64,000 grain unit and was set to 40,000 grain capacity. And the hardness setting seemed off as well. Was at 25gpg, I changed it to 19gpg which is what my hardness is. The company was supposed to set it up for what I should need according to 4 people, 19gpg hardness, 3.7ppm iron.

Next issue is.... it came set on the double backwas mode which i wanted. But it doesnt follow the correct order as its supposed to. Basically when its supposed to brine fill, it is in rapid rinse valve/cam position. And of course theres not water going into the brine tank. When it goes into the 2nd backwash according to the lcd on the controller, it then brine fills. I'm contacting the seller to figure that out. It works as it should in the regular down flow mode.

My only real issue is I'm not sure of some settings. It does the brine slow rinse for an hour, but there's not enough brine solution to last that long. The brine fill is like 12min... how do I know how much solution or fill time it SHOULD have? I'll write down the exact settings its on tonight, then post them tomorrow for some input/help on what my times should be set to.

Pics will come soon, as I'm still in the moving process. I installed the GE hybrid water heater, post softener/pre-water heater filter, surge tank, lots of valves....I like how it cam out and had fun doing it.

[greg-cws]

Post the program setting you currently have, and we'll help you get it all figured out. Depending on brine dosage, that capacity might be accurate. The hardness setting needs to be adjusted to compensate for iron, so it does indeed Ned to be higher than the calcium/magnesium content.

[icareak]

It is set as the following:
MTR DLY FIX RSV
56xt/6700
Down Flow
Us Gallons
40000 grains
35 GPG
20% capacity safety factor
Regen day override:off
Regen time:2am
Cycle 1: backwash 10min
Cycle 2: brine slow rinse 60min
Cycle 3: rapid rinse 10min
Cycle 4: brine tank fill 12min
Cycle 5: NA

The following are my emails back and forth to the company:

The control is functioning correctly. Your call as to reset it to "down flow double backwash" or not.

Quoting Aaron <aanickolopoulos@aol.com>:

I set it back to 40,000 and 35 like you said, bit left it in "down flow" instead of "down flow double back wash" since it doest seem to follow what the meter says. When I have it in "down flow double back wash" it follows the procedure cycles properly up until cycle 3.
Cycle 3 says backwash on the lcd screen, when the position according to the Fleck supplied manual is really in rapid rinse.
Cycle 4 says rapid rinse on the lcd screen, when the position according to the Fleck supplied manual is really in brine fill. This I can visually see.
Cycle 5 says brine fill on the lcd screen, when the position according to the Fleck supplied manual is really in back wash.
So....the order is out of whack, which wouldn't really matter aside from the times being incorrect. What is the deal and what can we do about it. Because I'd like it to do what it says, and for that time.
-Aaron Nickolopoulos-


On Apr 19, 2011, at 11:00 PM, sales@affordablewater.us wrote:

Set the capacity back to 40,000 or you will run out of soft water often. *You can regenerate 2/3rds of the total capacity efficiently, which is why it comes set that way!

The total hardness should be set to 35 grains. *You can and should change the setting to double backwash.

Thank you.


Quoting Aaron <aanickolopoulos@aol.com>:

First off, I'd like to say how wonderful your pricing is and how surprisingly fast the free shipping was. I was very impressed with these two very important issues.

But... I believe the 6700xtr control box didn't come programed as it should have. The grain capacity was set to 40,000, and the hardness was set to 25gpg. Not a big issue, I changed them to 64,000 and 19gpg like I assume it should have been...since I ordered a 64,000 grain unit and have 19gpg hardness, 3.7ppm iron, 4 people in household. Is this correct? If not, what SHOULD it have been set to?

The biggest problem I have is that it was set to down flow double backwash like I wanted it to be. But it wasn't following the double backwash procedure. Basically the unit said it was brine filling, yet it was in backwash according to the valve positions. And the fact the brine tank wasn't filling. Then when it went torapid rinse, it was actually brine filling.. I'm going to write down exactly which position it says it's in and which position it really is tonight. I will then send the exact issue with the double backwash tomorrow. The regular downflow single back was seems
to work right, so I left it in that setting.

-Aaron Nickolopoulos-

[icareak]

Injector-2
Drain flow- 3.5

[ion_avenger]

You have lots of iron, brine it heavy and use the double backwash (If you have the right cam).
Set the system up like this:
MTR DLY VAR RSV
56xt/6700
DOWNFLOW DB BW
Us Gallons
64000 grains
35 GPG (Hardness plus compensating for iron)
Regen day override 14
Regen time:2am
Cycle 1: backwash 10min
Cycle 2: brine slow rinse 90min
Cycle 3:backwash 10min
Cycle 4: rapid rinse 5min
Cycle 5: brine tank fill 20min
AUX RELAY - Disabled
Chemical Pump - Disabled
Flow Meter - .75 Paddle
Force the system to cycle tonight so it loads the resin up with a heavy dose of sodium

[icareak]

Do i do this if I have a Res-Up system as well?

[ion_avenger]

Yup, you do. The Res-Up will protect the resin from longterm damage, but you still need to clean had with salt to keep your water good.